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In the modern publishing landscape, these days, I think like we do not have many (if any) point-of-view characters with low social motivation for whatever reason.

Sure, there are lots of characters with social anxiety or other perceived or legitimate foibles to overcome, there are many YA villain origin stories, and there are many unpalatable, traditionally "unlikable" men in classics, but disregarding those, who else do we have?

Can the state of openly being alone (and content) rarely be presented as morally-neutral or as the end result of a narrative? Must it always be that either being alone is the starting point, so there's room for "personal growth," or that being alone is seen as "undesirable" and/or an indication that the person alone has a "problem" or something otherwise wrong with them, like a deficit or moral failing that in some kind of karmic way gives them "what they deserve," which is being alone and discontent with it?

Characters with society anxiety, any differences in communication, or other reasons that interfere with forging connections "don't count" because they may still be motivated. Traits such as these only stand in the way of gaining relationships, as plot obstacles. They aren't intrinsically tied to indifference or to low motivation. So, these characters clearly are not experiencing a lack of interest. And they are not the ones rejecting others. Thus, they "don't count" as far as the archetype that I'm looking for goes.

Characters who undergo villain arcs or otherwise negative arcs may want to maintain their relationships or gain them, so some examples are immediately disqualified (hence not having low social motivation), even if they are the type of character most likely to alienate themselves by a story's end, conflicting with what they wanted.

(Unfortunately, Coriolanus Snow, who is quite close to the type of protagonist I'm searching for "doesn't count" because he has some drive to keep people in his life.

Rafal Mistral partially "counts," and is satisfying as a character, but also doesn't count because he temporarily makes "friends" or allies, depending on how you look at his exploits. Yet, despite all this, not having friends isn't exactly framed as a morally-neutral state either, so he is also disqualified by the end. Basically, he does have low social motivation, but his narrative lacks the conditions that would make the natural consequences of that low motivation play out for themselves. He is always surrounded by people, even if he hates every last one of them.

And, generally speaking, the usual, moody-broody, "misunderstood" YA love-interests very easily "don't count" because they have a desire to get closer to their object of affection.

Even Katniss Everdeen, an overall good person, who usually views herself as "unlikable," befriends others, originally for pragmatic, survival purposes. However, she does start with low social motivation, so that's something in her favor.

And yes, I'm aware that we need other people in this world—I would just like to see someone prove that supposed truth wrong once. And perhaps succeed in their world, if that's not too much to ask for.)

Also, are there any instances of characters who progressively alienate themselves from others, in which that progression is not inherently seen as negative? Like, what about non-corrupt misanthropes? Are there few of those in literature? (Maybe—Eleanor Oliphant from literary fiction counts, but something about that book did not appeal me and I didn't finish it.)

Classics guys sort of "count," but I haven't really seen examples of any comparable protagonists today since many authors and readers write and look for "relatability" in blank slate everyman figures oftentimes.

(I'm not done with Crime and Punishment yet, but Raskolnikov is very tentatively looking like a safe bet for a character who may end up alone and who may not be completely malcontent over such a fate, even if I'm expecting tragedy. I'm that not far along, but I also wouldn't mind it too greatly if he died, I suppose.

And even Sherlock Holmes has Watson as his constant, even if he's notoriously asocial! So he "doesn't count" either.

Carol from Main Street also comes close, but still ultimately desires approval from others.

Maybe no one is truly immune to humanity and I should give up on this notion?)

How many pov characters out there are 1) apathetic toward the masses and 2a) either alienate themselves as the plot progresses or 2b) do not make any friends? (I will allow them making friends and consequently losing them though because that still ends in net zero!)

Indeed, this "gap" in protagonists I've been running into lately, especially with coming-of-age arcs and protagonists whose arc is some form of "getting out of their shell," is: why do we (almost?) never see protagonists who just flat-out don't progress in terms of connecting with fellow humans?

Wouldn't having even a handful of those types be reflective of reality? (We as a society are more disconnected than ever, to be fair, despite constantly having access to one another via technology.)

Or I would completely understand it, if it were narratively impractical to have a plot in which a protagonist makes zero friends. Maybe, it's a near-unwritable form for a story?

So, my question is: does anyone have book recommendations, which present a character whose end goal is not to make friends or forge connections (any other ambitions or motivations are fine) and whose state of being friendless both lasts and is regarded as morally-neutral or as not outright evil? Any genre is fine. High fantasy is preferable. I am stumped.

(I also wouldn't mind recommendations of books in which the protagonist is vilified due to being alone, even if that is not my primary query here.)

I just love it when video games let you do really stupid shit that kills you immediately. I love being like "oh this is a terrible idea" and being able to do it and then die. It's good game design.

“where did this weird trope even come from?”

well, statistically speaking, probably star trek

"i could fix him" yeah? well i could accept him as he is. you don't like the murder? grow up. the atrocities are part of him and ive decided they're funny

Here's the thing. Derek Hale dying would objectively suck no matter how or why, but character death can have significant meaning and can actually be impactful to the storytelling, the character's development, ect.

As a poorly done but logical example; Billy Hargrove. An abused, terrified boy who, ultimately, chose to be good and chose to willingly sacrifice himself to save people who objectively were just going to happily let him die. Billy went down fighting. Billy, for once, made his own choice out of a lifetime of being controlled by others. Billy, who had no idea about the supernatural, used his last moments to stand up to a terrifying interdimensional creature who'd used him like a meat-puppet in a fight he knew was going to be his last.

Meaningful. Impactful. Relevant to Billy's characterisation and backstory, regardless of if you liked him or not.

But Derek Hale's death means quite literally scant fuck all. It was death for the sake of death. It was solely for shock value and it was two-dimensional and it was nothing short of boring, lazy writing, and one final fuck you to the fans that Jeff Davis seems hellbent on shitting all over.

Jeff Davis effectively ensured that by the end of the show Derek Hale was not a significant character. He wrote him off as basically another pack-adjacent character in the movie too; just a single dad minding his business, trying to raise his son, occasionally helping out his old buddy Mr. Sheriff. He was objectively in the movie solely to die and once again uplift Scott McCall by providing him with a son for his happy ever after and to kick all the Derek Hale fans right up the patoot.

Remove Derek from the movie, and nothing changes. Eli could've just as easily been Isaac's son, or Jackson's. There was no solid basis for Derek's presence in the movie, or his death, other than shock value and the effective culling of the character because Jeff Davis is a tiny little man who physically can't stand when his fans don't fall into rank. And, of course, the pull of having Tyler Hoechlin back and having Derek Hale back. What's a Teen Wolf movie without the DILF factor, right?

He physically only created the movie because he couldn't stand the fact that the potential for one was there, and that someone else could produce it. He couldn't even think up an actual plot for the movie outside of a grossly predictable, flat recycling of previous villains and a frankly embarrassing reincarnation of the original pack.

The villain is recycled and completely voids the logic and lore set out by the show, and when you think about it is actually also just a boring recycling of the Kate Argent Werecreature plot, too. Main villain is killed, somehow comes back X amount of time later as a werecreature hellbent on revenge.

If you want another example of a poorly done, 'just because they can' death, look at Dean Winchester. Look at Eddie Munson. Look at Charlie Bradbury. Narratively redundant, shock value, stick-it-to-the-fans deaths that make me want to chew live wires.

i hate this weird trend in fandom where subtext is seen as a Bad Thing and is only done if the creators are too cowardly to commit to showing something. i hate to break it to you but nuance and layers are what make stories interesting, if you have no subtext then you have a very flat story

What do you mean one of them is dead?

What do you mean they hate each other?

What do you mean they have never met?

What do you mean both of them are dead?

Ever read so much fanfiction about a character or pairing that you literally forget what happened to them in canon? 

Every once a while I read an analysis and totally agree and then right in the middle they something batshit insane that can be disproven with very clear canon evidence. And then they go back to writing a very good analysis that I totally agree with, but it is completly tainted with the knowledge that they have the reading comprehension of a kitchen sponge when it comes to some things.

It just kills me when writers create franchises where like 95% of the speaking roles are male, then get morally offended that all of the popular ships are gay. It’s like, what did they expect?

Alisha vs The Scattered Bones... So Many Problems

Dazzling animation aside, the more I think about and watch this scene, the more ridiculous and problematic it looks. To think so many issues can be found in the first episode of an anime this visually spectacular baffles me even as I write it.

[WARNING: It’s long]

Since when did assassins attack their target when - in this case, she - is heavily guarded and armed herself? With all the research Rose is so proud of doing regarding her targets, you’d think they’d be in tune enough with her schedule to know when and where she would be most vulnerable to attack. Here, in this scene, she is in control and absolutely capable of fighting back. Rose apparently likes making things difficult for herself. They could have easily just snuck into her bedroom at night and slit her throat, as they attempted to do later with that dick prince. 

Why are they attacking in daylight, where their dark clothing counts for practically nothing? This really pertains to the above problem about attacking Alisha while she has means of defending herself. Assassins, at least by modern ideas, do their jobs under the cover of darkness as much as they can. Rose and her guild do the same, as we see with their attempt on the dick prince’s life, and in their espionage work. They’re not the assassins of old that attacked people in broad daylight in front of public eyes. If they didn’t, then wearing matching uniforms and coating themselves in black would be entirely pointless and only be to their detriment. In any case, they really did not make the most of their oh so fearsome powers of stealth as assassins did they?

So it appears the reason they all had to jump in out of hiding in the first place is because some guy fucked up and can’t hit a motionless target to save his life. We’re supposed to believe these assassins are feared? The knife sailed past her head by quite a margin, and was that really inteded as a killing blow, because it almost looked soft. I wouldn’t trust a dagger thrown from on high to take out a target - an arrow would be far more effective if that was the plan. Or was that knife throw intended to miss, as in the case in their game debut? If so, the entire thing was cocked up from the very beginning. There is zero benefit to alerting your target - the target you intend to KILL - to your presence before striking. And before you mention ‘oh but they have their honour, they couldn’t just attack a helpless target’, I’ll remind you how Rose drove a knife into the leg of Lunarre, a member of her so-called ‘family’, who was outnumbered and not hostile towards them, simply for speaking up. I’ll also remind you how they were almost killed Bartlow (game, manga) despite him being necessary and important to Ladylake regardless of his many bad deeds, only stopping when Alisha reminds them of the political, economic and even social impact this would have. In short, they are not as honourable as they like to think they are, nor is their honour-protecting reasonable. Here it costs them a mission.

Combining all the above problems, no damn wonder they have trouble fighting Alisha and her guards head on. With only daggers and nothing else at their disposal, once disarmed (and they inevitably are) they’re up against the wall with nothing else to do but retreat. Not only was Lunarre no match for Alisha (thanks Rose) arguably none of them were. Their weapons are best designed for their line of work - quick, silent and stealthy killing, not drawn-out combat. They seem to have forgotten they are assassins, not soldiers or warriors. And from what I’ve read online from weapon enthusiasts, a weapon with a longer reach, like a two-handed or one-handed sword, would be a far better match against a spear. As this scene made clear, the assassins and their daggers/shuriken were not cut out for extended close combat, especially not against spears. In Episode 3, Alisha wields a dagger, and so her battle with Rose is at least even-matched and can go either way.

The so-called ‘family unit’ of the Scattered Bones abandon one of its members (Lunarre) and leave him to fight Alisha alone, despite being (to quote Rose) ‘no match’ for her? From what I could see there were two other members besides Lunarre, one of whom being Rose, unless she was just watching it all from the shadows. They disappear almost immediately after he engages with Alisha, and for all appearances they retreated into the trees at that moment as there is no sight or sound of them fighting the guards in the background. As a result, when Lunarre is inevitably disarmed and rendered helpless, he is utterly at the mercy of Princess Alisha. Rose tells Lunarre to retreat, but neither he nor Rose has the means of protecting him if Alisha decided to cut him down. She could well have done, and at this point Rose does not know Alisha’s character enough to know she won’t kill him, otherwise Rose wouldn’t have bothered asking the princess why she didn’t do it. Rose should have called for Lunarre to retreat the moment she and the others disappear. Of course, he could have ignored it, but it would have made more sense. This problem can come down to lazy writing, Rose canonically not giving nearly as much of a shit about Lunarre as she claims to (in the game), or a combination of both.

Tying in with Point 5 - ALISHA SAW LUNARRE’S (UGLY-ARSE) FACE. Even MORE reason not to let her get out of the woods alive! A dead princess would tell no tales, guards included, and having them being able to describe and recognise one of her assassins is a ramification no assassin organisation worth their salt would risk. If they weren’t so horrifically equipped and outmatched, with practically everything including the environment dead against them, they would have the means to make it happen. Unfortunately, they had a damn big reason, but no means. 

Alisha’s BODYGUARDS entirely disappear from the scene the moment Lunarre starts attacking her. You could argue they’ve got their hands full with the other assassins - but there were only three assassins. Rose is already in a tree when Lunarre is attacked and subdued by Alisha, so it’s safe to assume the other assassin retreated also - so where the fuck were Alisha’s guards while all this is going on? They weren’t exactly having trouble with their opponents, and at this point in the scene they only have one, who retreats. And since no bodyguards are present to defend their princess... why the fuck does Rose not move in for the kill right here? Her and Lunarre against a lone Alisha would have a greater chance of success and, as previously stated, Alisha has seen Lunarre’s face so she kinda HAS to die at this point. Nope, the guards just come running back after the assassins leave. At that point Alisha should’ve gone “I COULD’VE BEEN KILLED WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU? YOU’RE GUARDS, YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD ME!” She doesn’t, however, do this.

Lunarre turns into a hellion and pointlessly fucks off instead of trying to finish what he started. What was the point of that? Presumably he became a hellion because of Rose’s ‘no match for her’ comment - though a little build up and clearer showing of this would’ve been helpful blah blah blah - and he later expresses interest in killing/eating Alisha himself, faithful to his game personality... so why the fuck doesn’t he do it right there and then when Alisha is right there and caught off-guard by his transformation/behaviour? God everybody is this scene is so stupid it hurts! Everything is so obviously happening because ‘it looks cool’ rather than ‘it makes sense because x’. Not even the pretty animation can disguise it.

OK rant over. Time to play some Zestiria XP I might rag on the anime and aspects of the game, but I do love it - and that’s why I think I make these posts. It pains me so much because I still love the characters and the story of the game regardless of its flaws, and to see it given such a disservice in the anime adaption while at the same time given amazing animation just pisses me off so much.

The Three Laws of Fandom

If you wish to take part in any fandom, you need to accept and respect these three laws.

If you aren’t able to do that, then you need to realise that your actions are making fandom unsafe for creators. That you are stifling creativity.

Like vaccination, fandom only works if everyone respects these rules. Creators need to be free to make their fanart, fanfics and all other content without fear of being harassed or concern-trolled for their creative choices, no matter whether you happen to like that content or not.

The First Law of Fandom

Don’t Like; Don’t Read (DL;DR)

It is up to you what you see online. It is not anyone else’s place to tell you what you should or should not consume in terms of content; it is not up to anyone else to police the internet so that you do not see things you do not like. At the same time, it is not up to YOU to police fandom to protect yourself or anyone else, real or hypothetical.

There are tools out there to help protect you if you have triggers or squicks. Learn to use them, and to take care of your own mental health. If you are consuming fan-made content and you find that you are disliking it - STOP.

The Second Law of Fandom

Your Kink Is Not My Kink (YKINMK)

Simply put, this means that everyone likes different things. It’s not up to you to determine what creators are allowed to create. It’s not up to you to police fandom. 

If you don’t like something, you can post meta about it or create contrarian content yourself, seek to convert other fans to your way of thinking.  

But you have no right to say to any creator “I do not like this, therefore you should not create it. Nobody should like this. It should not exist.”

It’s not up to you to decide what other people are allowed to like or not like, to create or not to create. That’s censorship. Don’t do it.

The Third Law of Fandom

Ship And Let Ship (SALS)

Much (though not all) fandom is about shipping. There are as many possible ships as there are fans, maybe more. You may have an OTP (One True Pairing), you may have a NOTP, that pairing that makes you want to barf at the very thought of its existence.

It’s not up to you to police ships or to determine what other people are allowed to ship. Just because you find that one particular ship problematic or disgusting, does not mean that other people are not allowed to explore its possibilities in their fanworks.

You are free to create contrarian content, to write meta about why a particular ship is repulsive, to discuss it endlessly on your private blog with like-minded persons.

It is not appropriate to harass creators about their ships, it is not appropriate to demand they do not create any more fanworks about those ships, or that they create fanwork only in a manner that you deem appropriate.

These three laws add up to the following:

You are not paying for fanworks content, and you have no rights to it other than to choose to consume it, or not consume it. If you do choose to consume it, do not then attack the creator if it wasn’t to your taste. That’s the height of bad manners.

Be courteous in fandom. It makes the whole experience better for all of us.

The plight of fictional mothers is something that will always stick out to me. Like either you die for the plot or you are forgotten by it. Fathers are something to be chased after a mystery to be solved. Mothers are a blimp that was once there and is now simply not.

She has no identity outside of mother sometimes barely even a name.

You know what I find really interesting, annoying, and frustrating all at the same time?

How people dumb down characters to make the other characters look good.

Or when they take away all of the bad traits from one character to make that character liked but amplify the other party’s bad qualities or add bad qualities that doesn’t exist.

As in basically making them OCs.

Like how they make a characters in Miraculous Ladybug worse than what they are and how they make Marinette the most amazing person on earth when she literally broke into Adrien’s house multiple times and stalked him on multiple occasions.

Yet the fandom is creating such fiction that will reconstruct the entirety of the show, especially the salt fanfiction, making the class to be such bullies because of Lila, like making Alya some kind of angry, irrational dog or Adrien some kind of really creepy dude, when, in reality, Marinette, actually the creep all because of the chameleon episode.

Is Alya not the best of friends? Yes.

Was Adrien’s advice to Marinette stupid? In my opinion, yes.

Did they make the characters dumb (dumber than usual) in chameleon? Yes.

Marinette is a kid but her classmates around e also children and her crimes are much bigger than their in the show and the fanfic is just making it seem like her crimes are not existent.

Or in DC fanfiction where they make characters like the Green Lantern or The Flash or Superman incredibly dumb or incredibly incompetence for the Bats.

Then, in reality, Hal graduated top of his class and has (what I believe are) a aviation degree and engineering degree, working on extremely complex projects of aircraft, Barry is a forensic chemist and literally works on crime scenes, or Clark who is literally a reporter who won two Pulitzers awards, works at one of the best newspapers in the industry/world, and does amazing work on his stories

And all of them have use their intelligence to defeat their enemies bigger than themselves, but writers just throw it all away to make them complete blundering idiots or just straight up a-holes for Batman and his family.

Just complete disregard for the characters quality in who they are and what they stand for.

Pol!Jon: A Study in Nonsense

I was recently closing some of my old documents and came across an old draft of myself arguing with a Jonsa on YouTube or Reddit or somewhere in the wild out there about Pol!Jon. I've spent probably over five years now arguing against the Pol!Jon theory so there's a lot to talk about. Let's dive in!

But first, what is Pol!Jon? It has other names like UndercoverLover!Jon and is short for Political!Jon but basically, it's quite the misogynistic little theory that still breathes life into the hearts and minds of some Jonsas around here. It features Jon callously using Dany and sexually manipulating her while faking his love for her in order to gain access to her dragons and armies to fight the Others.

In this theory, Jon is a separatist who would never give up Sansa's precious independent North because in this theory, Jon's life revolves around Sansa and what Sansa wants. According to Jonsas, Jon lives everyday for Sansa and fought the Battle of the Bastards for Sansa (Rickon who?) He asks Melisandre not to bring him back if he falls because apparently, if he can't protect Sansa, he doesn't want to live at all (I thought it was because he was suicidal per canon and he didn't want to be brought back to life a second time). In this theory, Jon wants to fight the army of the dead to create a better world for Sansa. He must steal Dany's dragons for Sansa and ride Dany like a braindead flesh eating horse... for Sansa.

Now Dany. Oh boy. Of course, according to Jonsas, Dany is always a piece of work. Dany is a cruel, heartless firebug tyrant witch who loves2kill, eats blood sandwiches, drinks blood milk, and can easily be controlled and manipulated by sex (until she's not but that's also, somehow, "proof" of Pol!Jon-- oh, I'm sorry, Sacrificial!Jon now). After she bathes in virgin blood and feeds more babies to her rooms' fires to keep her toes toasty, Dany'll summon her nephew to have sex telepathically by thinking how she'd like to see him in private later.

But yeah, basically this is how they were characterized: Jon was a Stark Northern nationalist and Sansa groupie who was going to sexually exploit and nefariously use Dany, Dany was just a brainless dictator thirstbot who could be steered like a happy lil steamboat ⛵ with Jon's penis. The original theory had Jon faking his fealty to Dany and plotting with Sansa against Dany once they found out his true parentage (see, Jon would be telling Sansa his true parentage first and hiding it from Dany while making sweet sweet nephew love to her with his body to keep her sweet, docile, and placated -- oops). There was even to be a Dance of the Dragons 2.0 between Dany and Jon per Jonsa speculations when the ruse was up but alas, none of that happened, despite Jonsas acting like all their predictions happened :)

Now usually, a nice calm discussion with a Jonsa over Pol!Jon will start something like this...

Jonsa:

"You know, and I do not mean to be rude, but it never ceases to amuse me that whenever I’m in a discussion [about Pol!Jon] with a Dany fan … that is a fan who refuses to believe that Dany’s capable of doing what she did in the show, despite evidence to the contrary in the books … they always, always, get into justifying her by comparison. They’ll bring up Arya, Bran, Ned, Robb, and of course, their favorite, Sansa. Why? Did I mention Sansa? Did I say what I thought about her and Jon?"

So why bring up Sansa? Pol!Jon is central to Sansa when it comes to Jonsaland: Jon's "love" for Sansa triumphing over all else including Jonerys, the Northern crown for Sansa, "domination" for Sansa over evil rival Dany without Sansa having to lift a single finger or sully her moral character. That's all on bad guy Jonsa-Jon who is basically treated like a corruption toilet by Jonsas -- just have him do the atrocious actions for the love of Sansa and flush it all away afterward in their "happily ever after". See, if Jon does something evil/dark/bad for Sansa, that's perfect fine (even swoon worthy) in Jonsaland but if Dany looks at somebody the wrong way? Tyrant who deserves death. Another reason why Sansa is brought up is because it demonstrates an amazing example of Jonsa logical fallacies in action: Pol!Jonsers like to pretend Pol!Jon is the only way S7 & S8 Jon makes sense. This pretense goes hand in hand with pretending that D&D's... flawed... writing and bad plotting was limited to Jon, Dany, and their relationship and that their writing problems would be perfectly explained away by the totally sensical, unbiased, plot hole-free, absolutely non-shippery Jonsa-driven Pol!Jon theory :)

This pretends that Show!Smart!Sansa's actions make all kinds of sense, especially when it comes to a brother (Jon) that she's supposed to love: withholding potentially life-saving military info from Jon for no reason during the Battle of the Bastards when he's trying to save their brother and is facing the giant army of a psycho! Manipulating Jon into joining that war by using Rickon's life to pull Jon in before telling him to give up Rickon for dead the night before! Completely disregarding Jon's choices he makes about his parentage information and claim! Breaking her vow to Jon in the godswood seconds later to make Jon the central target in a claimant war from those who want Dany on the throne! TY Sansa!

It pretends that all the other non-Jon and Dany plots from season 5 were perfectly sound.

Do we have a Pol!Jon theory for when Jon puts Sansa in the crypts during the battle against the dead, knowing the Night King raises the dead? Maybe Jon's hoping he can finally get rid of Sansa's nagging with an, "Oops! I put her in the crypts and blanked out about the dead people! Stress, you know?" "What about all the other civilians?" "Tbf, Sam, did we really need them?" "Dark, dude." "Right? Death changes a man." Enjoy the Dark!Jon, Jonsas :)

In this post, I'll look over the origins of Pol!Jon, run through the outcomes of the theory, take a look at the different versions it ran through once Pol!Jon v1 didn't start coming to pass on the show, the self contradictions of the theory and between its various versions, and Jonsa response to canon :) Finally, I will look at the ramifications Pol!Jon would have to Jon's arc and its themes before closing out.

Origins

Despite later claims from Jonsas, Pol!Jon didn't come about based on observations from the show or that "something fishy was going on" between Jon and Dany (somehow always only observed by Jonsa fans). It came about nearly a year prior to Jon and Dany even sharing screen time -- Pol!Jon was born in reaction to leaks in November 2016 that revealed Jon and Dany would be hooking up. I remember first seeing it in December 2016.

After the massive meltdown died down a bit, Jonsas began cobbling a story together that they could live with: Jon sexually exploiting a rape victim and faking his love for her :)

Heartwarming how much Jonsas love Jon

And with this new story Jonsas push onto Jon, our newest little Northern Nationalist refuses to give up the North's precious independence for any reason, nevermind a crucial theme in Jon's arc being about unity. Jon's now got to depend on his mighty penis to steer that monster Dany in the right direction. A big job for a little fellow :(

And this was decided by the Jonsa community before even shooting for season 7 began.

Real woke and progressive, guys.

Now let's examine how this would play out! :)

The outcomes of Pol!Jon

Well, turns out Pol!Jon never really had an exit strategy because when you run the scenarios through:

a) Jon knowingly submits the North to somebody he believes is an unhinged, unstable tyrant who could go off at any time -- when he didn’t even have to -- hoping his dick is enough to control her and that she never catches on (ie. that Dany is a thirst bot controlled by the d) or;

b) the Dance of the Dragons v2 scenario: he reveals that he’s been using Dany and lying to her this whole time (which would be treason), handing Dany and her supporters a glittering reason on a silver platter to go to war against the North, upon which they’ll be completely decimated or; 

c) he’s scheming to get rid of Dany and actually has planned on starting yet another civil war from the beginning with Dany’s armies and supporters… while his own forces are severely lacking (thus why he needs Dany per this same theory)… causing more death and destruction to the realm, including his own people.

d) need I list out the narrative and in-universe pitfalls of what would happen if Jon decided to frame another region for Dany's murder?

Not only would framing another region start yet another needless human war within Westeros (what Jonsas are supposedly against when it comes to Dany as queen), I highly doubt GRRM is going to reward the North with peace and prosperity for Jon's stunt here (and no, neither exiling or executing Jon is payment enough for the North's peace while hundreds of thousands suffer in a war Jon caused in exchange). Plus, what happens when they're found out? Oh wait, is the North special and they get away with it forever and ever?

Worse yet, Dany hasn't even done anything at this point but save Westeros from total annihilation. And Jon is plotting against her? Why? Even more mind boggling, this is the same speculation Jonsas have for the books too. So Dany plays a crucial part in saving the world from one of Jon's darkest nightmares coming true and he's plotting her assassination...?

And no, don't give me that dAnY iS a TyRaNt aNd a ConQueRoR AnD JoN haTeS fIrE. Jon, himself, is a feudal lord -- he is elected but Jon himself does not take a vote on his decisions or run trials. Jon, himself, has fought with fire from atop the Wall. Jon's hero was the Young Dragon, a 14-year old conqueror who invaded Dorne atop a dragon. Jon dreamed of being a conqueror himself. Jon has generations of Stark ancestors -- and a Stark brother -- who are conquerors. I could go on but that is a post for another day.

Oh, and in the scenario Dany's not this evil hurricane of darkness and fire? Nice job torpedoing that much needed alliance, Jon. Dany has connections in the east, is queen of Meereen, while the North is struggling with food scarcity, would have just fought a war and is in dire need of repair...

So with Pol!Jon, Jon is placed in a far more incomprehensible and nonsensical position -- it can't even handle an exit strategy. Yet proponents of Pol!Jon claim this theory would make Jon "smart" :/

Revision!Pol!Jon

Sadly for Jonsas everywhere, Pol!Jon kept having to undergo revision after revision by desperately rallying Pol!Jonsers because, unfortunately, Jon would do things that didn’t comply with Pol!Jon.

This includes things like Jon’s fealty being genuine (when Jonsas were so sure it was a ruse); telling Dany the truth about himself before telling Sansa (when Pol!Jonsers were so sure Jon would confide in Sansa first and keep it from Dany); refusing to press his claim against hers when the original theory posited that Jon would secretly use his claim against Dany to undermine her and take the throne from her resulting in the Dance of Dragons v2 (which Pol!Jonsers were sure Jon would do with the aid of Top Advisor Sansa); not warning Sansa or Arya about the oooooooh-so-apparently-dangerous Dany (as Pol!Jonsers were sure Jon would do to reveal his “true” feelings and his “real” plan with Dany); never revealing, “Oh, Sansa, I never loved her, I’ve always loved you! That burn-happy psychotic dictator was just a deluded tool in my grand plan to save the North and only the North, before I marry you, my true love! Will you marry me and make me the happiest man in the world by becoming your parents born again? Including the woman who brought me so much pain for most of my life?”… A revelation which Pol!Jonsers were waiting for with bated breath but alas, never came, etc. Among other things.

And as revision after revision of Pol!Jon occurred, it resulted in more and more contradictions within various iterations of their own theory.

Eventually, Pol!Jon became Sacrificial!Jon wherein several 180s are done: surprise, Jon wasn't faking fealty to Dany after all -- so, of course, he must be forcing his fealty to save the North and placate Dany! And now, Jon is suddenly "too honourable" to betray fealty to Dany (but this honour doesn't matter when it comes to manipulating, exploiting, and faking love for a rape victim apparently). Ditto goes for dropping Dany like a stone after the war against the dead -- that didn't happen so Jonsas figured it's part of Jon's "Sacrificial!Jon" ruse, the one where Jon does whatever Dany wants to keep her satisfied, pliant, and happy so Jon can get her away from Sansa safely and calmly...

...Except, while Jon does side with Dany in some areas (like the 8x04 war council), Jon doesn't simply keep Dany satisfied, pliant, and happy, nor does he do everything she wants and they both know it. In 8x02, Jon now knows Dany is his aunt and spends the whole episode avoiding everybody who isn't from the Wall, including Dany -- much to Dany's displeasure. Where's the placation?

Remember the Jonsa explanation for why Jon and Dany's first sexual encounter happens well after Jon pledges fealty to Dany since, in Jonsaview, Jon was only pledging fealty to and seducing Dany for her help (help that she freely vows to Jon before he gives his allegiance to Dany)? I recall Jonsas explained it away that Jon sexed Dany up because he had to seduce her into apparently keeping her on side: focused on the Night King, her mind off Cersei, and her body and mind pliant, satisfied, happy, and under Jon's control. That was the whole point of boatsex apparently -- according to Jonsas. And what happens right after Dany, Jon, & co. all learn Cersei lied about their truce? Jon bolts, avoiding Dany and everyone else in the room.

Uh oh, looks like Pol!Jon isn't doing his job.

So yeah, where's Jon appeasing Dany and keeping her "on side" here?

At the end of that same episode, Dany comes and finds Jon. He's honest with her about the truth of his parentage, Dany is the first one Jon tells -- well before Sansa (which pissed Jonsas right off) and even Arya. Then, in the fourth episode, Jon initiates but stops their make-out session because of his incest hang-ups and Dany voices that she wishes Jon never told her the truth. Jon is frustrated too. He tells that he must tell his sisters. They argue. Jon doesn't back down. Dany doesn't back down. Again, where's the placation in this scene? Where is Jon holding back? Later, in episode five, Jon withdraws from their intimacy again. Where's the appeasement, placation, mollification here? Jon's not doing or saying things Dany wants here and again, they both know it, so how can his words and actions when they are positive about Dany or in defence of Dany be a ruse? How is Sacrificial!Jon working out here with supposedly "taming the dragon" when he's not doing what she wants either?

Well, apparently this is also proof that Dany is being "played" by Jon because get this: Jon's disagreement and resistance to their intimacy here isn't due to his issues with incest or wanting to be honest with Dany that he feels he must tell his family, no. According to Jonsas, it's Jon showing his simmering secret disdain for his "captor" and balking at her authority. The writers and scripts and logic be damned!

It’s telling that Pol!Jon only came after the season 7 leaks revealed Jon and Dany were getting together. It was never a theory (for the show or books) before that point.

And not only that, while today's Jonsas make fun of the Jonerys people for ever believing that Jon knocked Dany up, the Jonsas of 2018-19 had a contingency plan for that too -- introducing Abortion!Jon. Abortion!Jon features an even more morally depraved Jon who secretly slips a pregnant Dany moon tea without her knowledge or consent to abort their child.

Yeah. "Feminists."

Then again, it's not like Jonsas see Jon as a lead character in his own story anyway.

And those are but a few examples off the top of my head.

But onto the next section!

Conspiracy Theories!

In the previous section, I talked about how the ever growing build up of contradictions within the theory itself resulted from the show relentlessly going against Pol!Jon as events played out on screen. Consequently, Jonsas forced the theory to undergo revisions into other versions to, erm, "accommodate" these contradictions.

Unfortunately for its anxious followers, Pol!Sacrificial!Abortion!Jonsa!Jon was not victorious yet. Canon script and interview snippets still wielded their ugly swords: Jon loved Dany. Dany loved Jon. Jon's fealty to Dany was genuine and he bent the knee to Dany after realizing he loved her. Gah. He was into Dany as soon as he saw her. THAT TREACHEROUS WHORE (Jon, I mean. Think of the North! The whining flip flopping North!) And he blueballed Dany because he learned she was his aunt! So it wasn't because he realized he had Dany trapped in Winterfell with the Night King coming per the (✨new & revised✨) Pol!Jon proposal and now he was just. so. relieved. to. realize. he didn't have to sex her sweetly, gently, and doublecrossedly anymore!!

I've just got to ask a bit of a question about this whole thing....

a) When and where did Jon look relieved to be done making out with Dany in 8x04?

b) How would Jon know down to the second, minute, or even hour when the Night King was coming? Did they share numbers at Hardhome? Does Tormund know he has another bud Beyond the Wall?

c) If Jon was supposed to be focused on trapping Dany in WF until he knew for sure the NK was close and knew what time he'd be coming, why did Jon spend the whole day avoiding Dany too, giving her lots of time to leave? You know, if Dany is the flight risk Jonsas say she is?

....Because even when Dany and Jon hear the horn, it's not like Dany couldn't just turn around, refuse to fight, hop on Drogon, wish the North good luck, and order her dragons and armies to leave. Which is what Jonsas were literally speculating up until the end of 8x02 that night it aired.

Anyway, the show had written Dany and Jon to be in love and mutually. This was unacceptable to Jonsas so they got to work in fantasyland :)

But boy, were Jonsas and Stansas mad when the scripts said Jon loved Dany :) and they use these conspiracy theories to:

a) “invalidate” the cast/crew/writers/scripts stating Jon loved Dany by saying they were lying just for the sake of the public (even after the finale aired...);

b) to explain away story aspects even they couldn’t twist into the Pol!Jonsa narrative (such as Jon rationalizing Dany’s burning King’s Landing -- because Jon was "too honourable" to betray Dany but again, not too honourable to use and abuse a rape victim I guess... or commit oathbreaking back in season 3 or be willing to break sacred guest right in season 4...?);

c) to claim such scenes such as the 8x06 Tyrion/Jon scene where Jon is rationalizing Dany's actions are “retcons” while the “real” Pol!Jon ending was trashed and scripts were “tampered with”.

(ahahahahahaha)

Honestly, that blows me away. The entitlement and gall of that fandom to think that their crack theory driven by their crack ship is writer backed. I don't care how terrible the writers are -- that they honest to god think their misogynistic little punishment wet dream of a "theory" is a credible storyline when it doesn't even have an exit strategy is truly mind-blowing.

Oh, and they’ve blamed Emilia Clarke for cockblocking Jonsa. Sure. Does Emilia Clarke even know what Jonsa is? Does she care? If Emilia Clarke really had this power, wouldn’t she use it to change the final act of Dany’s story on the show? Point to me where D&D is trying to “appease” Dany stans? Whose fave has a crown again?

Jonsas claim D&D scrapped Pol!Jon at the last minute because it’d be too “controversial” for the audience.... on Game of Thrones. Where they had a pregnant woman stabbed to death... in her pregnant tummy. Jonsas deny Kit Harington’s confusion and bewilderment over Jonsa, claiming his “acting choices” are evidence that he was acting out Jonsa all along but forced by the higher-ups to give the Jonerys party line (you know, the couple that ended so happily) or just straight up making up baseless rumours:

The list goes on. As a result, those still bitterly hanging onto the theory keep insisting there is “support” for this shipper-derived-and-driven theory which was conveniently developed to explain away Jon and Dany’s relationship upon finding out it would be happening in season 7.

"Support" like when I asked a Jonsa who claimed Dany "summoned" Jon to her chambers the night he came to her room for boat sex in the "original script". I asked them to show me. This is what they were talking about -- from the leaked season 7 outline. Heavy sigh.

When the meeting ends, Theon asks if he can speak to Jon alone. Jon asks for Dany’s permission to do so. Dany grants it. She has some things she’d like to discuss with Jon later, privately. Exit Dany.

Yes, this is apparently a summons. A woman thinking about what she'd like to discuss with a man privately. This is what comprises "support" for a Jonsa.

Ramifications and Themes

Jonsas and their lunacy do make me laugh with how so off the mark they are and I love arguing with them on Reddit. That said, Pol!Jon admittedly steps on a nerve because of how sheerly problematic this theory is and what it says. It's not that Jonsas are regular ASOIAF fans that have deduced this theory from text and are afraid of this theory coming to fruition. They came up with this theory to happen as some sort of contingency plan because their nightmare (Jonerys) was happening over their fantasy (Jonsa) whereby their girl Sansa was not getting with the hot young hero secret prince, Jon. It's down to a pathetic ship war over a ship that is a total crack ship. They vilified Dany to prop up Sansa because Dany got the guy they want for Sansa.

We've got shit like this:

(In this one, note how Sansa completely replaces Dany in the Dany and Jon promo shots for S8. You know, the ones Jonsas called "empty and "un in love")

To repeat what I said above, Jonsas came up with a theory that has Jon sexually exploiting and faking his love for a rape victim (who loves him!) And how do they characterize said rape victim? As the enemy. As the one who "deserves it". As a brain dead dictator who must be brutally killed after she is sexually manipulated, used, and abused.

Let's talk about that for a moment.

Jonsas keep claiming that Dany was “abusive” to Jon and vilifying her for it. Yet also, in the very same breath, these same Jonsas came up with and supported theories like the very abusive Pol!Jon. They not only theorized Pol!Jon, they counted on it, looked forward to it, and insisted this theory was the only way the story and Jon made "sense" – an overly convoluted, inconsistent, contradictory, and incredibly misogynistic theory they developed in which Jon is abusive to Dany in his manipulation, lies, and exploitation – all for the sake of Jonsa/Sansa.

Yep, and not only that, they have Jon doing the act. Jon, who has spent his book arc empowering weaker characters (often fellow outsiders, his tightest bonds by far) in self defence and combat so they can defend themselves. So they aren't caught off guard. So they can fight. He believes in arming women, spearwives. Giving them their own castle, even if preventing rape means losing some of his men, even against objections of his officers -- but he's going to sexually prey on Dany, is he?

And you better believe Dany would be one of those characters dragon or no (and for the vast majority of the series, she's been without a dragon to bail her out). Dany is not afraid to go into battle or lead forces on the ground, as she's shown already when she's jumped right into the fray head first, but she still needs to be trained with a sword and in ground combat. She's still a 16-year old small-boned girl who is thin and short -- but sure, Jon's going to sexually prey on her.

Jonsas also love to use Ygritte as a "precedent" for Jon sexually manipulating and faking love for Dany but I love to use this as evidence for Jonsas who do so never reading the books :) Ygritte blackmailed Jon into sleeping with her. Jon was clear about rejecting Ygritte’s sexual advances, despite his growing attraction to her to the point where Tormund questions what Jon’s problem is. And when Jon did sleep with her, his feelings for her genuinely deepened. Jon notes he loves Ygritte. Twice:

Ghost padded beside their garrons as Jon and Ygritte descended the Fist. It was not until they were halfway across the Milkwater that Jon felt safe enough to say, “I never asked you to lie for me.”

“I never did,” she said. “I left out part, is all.”

“You said—”

“—that we fuck beneath your cloak many a night. I never said when we started, though.” The smile she gave him was almost shy. “Find another place for Ghost to sleep tonight, Jon Snow. It’s like Mance said. Deeds is truer than words.”

(ASOS, Jon II)

Ygritte was much in his thoughts as well. He remembered the smell of her hair, the warmth of her body . . . and the look on her face as she slit the old man's throat. You were wrong to love her, a voice whispered. You were wrong to leave her, a different voice insisted. He wondered if his father had been torn the same way, when he'd left Jon's mother to return to Lady Catelyn. He was pledged to Lady Stark, and I am pledged to the Night's Watch.

(ASOS, Jon VI)

"Who is Ygritte?" Donal Noye asked pointedly.

"A woman of the free folk." How could he explain Ygritte to them? She's warm and smart and funny and she can kiss a man or slit his throat. "She's with Styr, but she's not . . . she's young, only a girl, in truth, wild, but she . . ." She killed an old man for building a fire. His tongue felt thick and clumsy. The milk of the poppy was clouding his wits. "I broke my vows with her. I never meant to, but..." It was wrong. Wrong to love her, wrong to leave her... "I wasn't strong enough. The Halfhand commanded me, ride with them, watch, I must not balk, I . . ." His head felt as if it were packed with wet wool.

(ASOS, Jon VI)

And the Jonsa response?

A euphemism.

And GRRM wrote Jon's reference and preference for femininity (Arya) after the second wave feminists he himself knew and grew up with; who transformed history and changed society, helping to pave the way for women now.

Was there anyone in your life who might’ve served as an inspiration for Arya?

I can’t say there’s any one specific model, but a lot of the women I’ve known over the years have had aspects of Arya with them. Especially some of the women I knew when I was a young man back in the ’60s and ’70s, you know — the decade of the sexual revolution and the feminist movement. I knew a lot of young women who weren’t buying into the, “Oh, I have to find a husband and be a housewife.

Source

That Jon is going to use, abuse, and discard Dany like a used tissue? What kind of message is this?

One of the only characters who embrace women who are different, who go against the curve, who don't adhere to convention, who actually prefer women who defy convention, who can fight and defend themselves, who break rigid gender roles -- Jonsas want him to get in line and desire the conventionally ideal "pure" lady, like Sansa is supposed to be, over violent and messy and sexually experienced women. Excellent. Sansa is a maiden and doesn't get her hands dirty. That's the way they like Sansa. That's why Dany, Arya, Ygritte, Val, et. al are all inferior to Sansa. Doesn't matter that Jon has other partners or that he also does violence. Apparently, it only matters if you're a woman.

Another important part of Jon's character is his realization that a) the wildlings are not the enemy, they are our fellow man and b) all humankind need to unite to face a common threat: the Others.

"I am the sword in the darkness," said the six, and it seemed to Jon as though their voices were changing, growing stronger, more certain. "I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men."

The shield that guards the realms of men. Ghost nuzzled up against his shoulder, and Jon draped an arm around him. He could smell Horse's unwashed breeches, the sweet scent Satin combed into his beard, the rank sharp smell of fear, the giant's overpowering musk. He could hear the beating of his own heart. When he looked across the grove at the woman with her child, the two greybeards, the Hornfoot man with his maimed feet, all he saw was men.

(ASOS, Jon VII)

This passage reminds me of a quote from GRRM here:

I'm not an "American First" (and maybe because I read science fiction) I'm a "Terran First". I'm a human being first. And I have this sympathy for other human beings no matter what side of the giant ice wall they happen to be born on.

Source

Putting aside the specifics of [Brexit], and taking a long-range look, I think history shows that we do better when we join together into larger political units that embrace diversity, rather than building walls and breaking into smaller units. Alexander’s empire was better than the squabbling city-states of ancient Greece that preceded it (a pity he did not live long enough to make the union with Persia permanent, and twice a pity that his successors broke it all up into smaller countries to war on each other). The thirteen American colonies were wise to join together into one large country, despite their differences, than they would have been as thirteen small ones. The nations of Europe have been fighting each other for centuries; joining together into one great multi-national nation represents real progress.

Eventually I do hope we will be one peaceful world, like the SF writers of my youth once predicted. Terra, Old Earth, call it what you will. We’re all human

Source

Yet another aspect of Jon's arc that Pol!Jon strips away. Unity and the incredible importance of unity, of compromise, of negotiation, even when it's difficult. Of talking with people, even when relations aren't entirely friendly (or even when it's with an enemy!) and navigating communications from that point.

No. Instead, it turns Jon into a separatist, a Northern nationalist, and that's the kind verbiage. The relationship is flattened into "master" schemer and braindead fool. "Smarter" male predator and dumb female prey. Real nice. This has Jon working for the Starks' interests and only the Starks' interests, just like the good lil bastard he is. When I say Stark, I really mean Sansa because the interests of Arya/Bran/Rickon/Jon are never really discussed when it comes to Jonsa/Stansa theories. They all want what Sansa wants, of course, and do her dirty work. Sansa remains pure as punch. Jon is actively plotting against Dany in a suicide mission that is destined to end in disaster (at best) and decimate the entire North and vilify it for ages (at worst). I can't even begin to think of how Jonsas would spin the unity aspect of Jon's storyline. Do they even care about uniting with the wildlings for instance, considering how they view Ygritte as an ugly disease ridden rapist gremlin and that Jon is due for an "upgrade" in Sansa?

I don't know, Jon. If I was going to date one (or more) of my relatives, I'd go for the one(s) who liked me regardless of my bastard status :)

Pol!Jon is an atrocious problematic theory that started out as a deluded desperation to keep a crack ship alive after finding out that ship wouldn't sail....and it turned into a monster that is pushed as canon on general boards and social media platforms. Yet, on the other hand, it's fascinating to see how vehemently some Jonsas insist on dying on that horrible, sexist hill and the lunacy they come up with to combat canon and avoid some fictional truths all to keep hating on a character to keep their fanon alive.

I am sorry for the length. I have a lot of feelings. And a lot of pot.

Fanfic evolution, history, context, noodling, AUs and the Omegaverse

I've had a lousy few health days and ended up listening to a long, slow-burn, characterisation-rich Omegaverse fanfic in between sleeps. I've wanted to get my head properly around the A/B/O AU concept for ages (I'm feeling my fannish-elder age and thinking a lot about our evolution as a creative community after we got online, about the gamechangers like Buffy, Harry Potter, X-Files, and Supernatural) but never found one that was this much in-character to keep me engaged for the duration of a long read. I've only finished reading smutty shorts before.

I mean, I'm so broad-minded about fictional content that I have trouble fitting my mind inside my actual skull (my joke excuse for chronic migraine!), but I'm basically here to read about the characters I already love being recognisably themselves in some way, even in the most extreme AU setting. I wander off quickly with a 'meh' if that's missing, as I tend to do with original works/characters unless the writing is next-level extraordinary (Wolf Hall, Dresden Files, Titus Groan/Gormenghast, most of Terry Pratchett) and don't have two fucks to rub together about the kink side of fanfiction. I'll read it if it's there in an otherwise engaging piece, but it's never a draw for me.

I'm trying not to get all analytical until I finish hearing/reading this fanfic, but my brain-spider's groping as far back as Kirk/Spock and Amok Time for context and history, here. And I wouldn't say the same about mpreg, which I've tended to view as an evolution of smarm (The Sentinel fandom's 1990s flavour of it in particular) and soft whump, more than of graphic, romantic slash like K/S - yet I thought all this time that mpreg and the Omegaverse shared a common ancestry. Innteresssting.

I had the vague thought as I listened that some of the best AU fanfic I ever consumed came from the Star Wars: TPM/Jedi Apprentice fandom - the Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan pairing stuff on the Master Apprentice mailing list and archive. Soaring AUs and worldbuilding, yet deeply grounded in what little we then knew of those two characters. And there was so little to go on - I mean, Lucas' prequels were, to put it politely, heavily stylised rather than emotionally deep. That fandom had epic AU/AR fics that took my breath away with their character-richness, with their emotional beats, and had me going, "How?!?!" with writerly awe at a time when I was no slouch myself in the writing department. I need to find the energy to get myself up to date with the Disney!Star Wars content explosion and pay another visit.

It's awesome you've been in fandom so long & can remember so much Nym. What elder wisdom would you share for fans with it all lying ahead?

Elder wisdom? Lordy! I don't think I have any of that. Experience is awesome and educational, but I wouldn't ever conflate it with wisdom. Anyone can think and/or fumble their way to wisdom, at any age. And anyone can be an unthinking twit - ditto. General advice for happy fanning... um... do what you love doing, let others do what they love doing.

Oh, and (for those of us with ovaries and creative inclinations) - nobody tells you that menopause can (not will - can) cause your cognitivie capacity to abruptly drop right out of your foo-foo at some arbitrary cutoff point, erasing decades of learning-how-to-write and leaving you a creative vegetable who needs to refresh their A-B-C and basic pencil-holding technique before writing a bloody grocery list, let alone coherent fanfic or meta. So I'm telling. (This too shall pass, HRT is awesome in the meantime, and you have to laugh like you're living in a Terry Pratchett novel, don't you, or else you'll cry.) There's some elder wisdom!

Yeah, I'm being silly (a bit), but Real Life will always try to cockblock fannish fun - or any fun. Other people tend to try to squash fun that isn't theirs, for whatever reason seems valid to them at the time. Adulting just eats you if you let it, and fandom is as valid a way of balancing that pressure with some release as any other hobby.

Even if the fannish escapism is only dreaming inside our heads, vegging on the sofa with endless reruns of our comfort show, thoughtful moments snatched in the shower or on our way to sleep, or reading AO3 tentacle porn on the commute to work, we need and deserve that space for ourselves to be ourselves. We deserve and need to be energised and passionate and in love with something, so we should hold on to fandom with both hands and give it the credit it's due as a lifestyle.

On being an older fangirl

I was probably 10 years old when I first conceived of what was, looking back, fanfiction. Me and my best friend would lie in bed together on sleepovers and I'd make up stories about what happened after the end of our favorite book, "The Westing Game." She'd ask me for more stories, and I'd tell her more, inventing them as I went along. "Then what?" she'd say.

I was 14 when I went to my first convention. I had discovered Star Trek: The Next Generation. It was 1987, and my youth pastor was a huge Trekkie. He took me to a one-day crappy Creation con, but it was amazing to me. I met Nichelle Nichols. My dad showed me the Trek movies. He and I watched TNG together.

When I went to college in 1991, my dad used to videotape TNG episodes onto VHS tapes and mail them to me, so I could keep watching (I didn't have TV in my dorm room).

By the time I was a senior, we had Trek watching parties in the dorm lounge, where the TV had cable. Star Trek: Voyager had started up, and I wrote a column about it for the college newspaper. I joined a mailing list about it, with people in it that I still know today.

I got my first computer that could go online in 1995. I was on newsgroups. I discovered Doctor Who. I went to Trek conventions where we still passed around fanzines containing fic and art and smutty K/S fan creations.

Then it was Harry Potter. Then there were websites. Then there was Geocities, where we could all make our own little spots. We organized them into webrings. We talked on newsgroups and mailing lists. There were fanfic archives. Then there was fanfiction.net.

Then...there was LiveJournal. And we could interact in entirely new ways. We could form communities, and debate things, and fight over canon, and get into ship wars. On LiveJournal, I met my best friend of 22 years. I was in her wedding. She's my sister of the heart (which is what she calls me).

Then there was Tumblr. And Twitter. And now there's Discord. But it's all the same.

I am the same.

I am still that little girl who made up fanfiction in her head to entertain her best friend. I am still the one who was amazed to find communities on the internet - which was so new, so raw, so uncommodified - where others like me could meet. I found there people to meet in real life.

I am still that twentysomething going to her first major convention, being told that someone loved my fic, being asked about my writing process.

I am still that thirtysomething watching something I wrote blow up. Seeing friends from other fandoms find me in new ones, finding them there, too. Forgetting which fandom I know someone from, because I've known them for twenty years.

I still know some of the people who created those early websites, those mailing lists, those archives. I still meet people in new fandoms who say "Oh, I read your fic in [fandom] fifteen years ago!" There's no feeling quite like having someone remember something you wrote for that long. Or meeting someone whose fic meant a lot to YOU, or who you talked with on rec.arts.drwho.creative in 1997.

Aging in fandom is a gift. Being middle-aged in fandom is a joy. Having people who still read what I write and ask "Then what?" is a blessing.

It breaks my heart that so many people see it as something to be ashamed of, when it is one of my life's greatest gifts.

my favourite people in fandom are the ones that have just a working knowledge of the canon but don’t know much more than the average person until you get to that one specific thing. that one small scene in the movie or just a single character. and if you get them started on that one thing they know, they wlll talk about it for hours despite the fact that you wound’t have thought there was enough to talk about. 

like i’m not talking about the people who are obsessed with hermione granger, or could talk for hours about the USS enterprise, i’m talking about the people who are obsessed with regulus black, who doesn’t even appear in the harry potter boooks, or could give a two hour lecture on the genocide on tarsus V in star trek (which is mentioned in like, a single episode). i love those fans. they’re who i roll with. you keep dedicating hours and hours to this one tiny detail that most people overlook. i wanna read whatever you have to say about it (✿◠‿◠)

Writing comments for fanfic

tl;dr -- Write one thing you liked about the fic (a phrase or moment) and how you reacted or made you feel! Also, keep it fun! Make no demands of fic authors who write out of love and Owe Us Nothing.

It took me a while to figure out how to write comments. I went through an evolution. There's lots of stuff on how to write stories, probably even giving crit and feedback, but commenting? Not nearly as much. So here's my not so short ramble on writing comments for fic. Includes my Ways of commenting and Tenets of commenting.

Examples here will be T-rated (by AO3 standards) and most are taken from or newly written with specific fics in mind. They are, ahem, almost all Genshin Impact.

Commenting is, I believe, a personal thing. I've been told I have a bit of an enthusiastic presence, so what feels true to you may vary. I also like to write words (can you tell?). And smash keyboards.

Leaving comments is, in fact, effort! But it's also a skill that can be learned and honed. And honestly, I think my fic experience is improved by it. I don't always leave a comment. But, I don't know... that random internet person authored a Whole Thing. For Free (likely). And I just get to read it?? Yeah, I'm going to leave a little appreciation. Just a little snack in return for this fulfilling meal you have fed me.

I also find writing a comment is also a way for me to just bask in a fic a little bit longer, linger in that feeling of oh, wow, this was so good, and I don't want to leave yet. (And then sometimes there's a response, and then I get a bonus dose of nostalgia!)

Ways of commenting

These are roughly ordered by amount of effort required. I would say the comments I leave are a mash up of these, really. There aren't actual hard lines between them.

1. An extra kudos.

Kudos are nice. Knowing the kudos button isn't enough is one layer deeper! Comments like

"Thanks for writing!" "<3" "i mash kudos button but no more kudos come out what's wronnnnggg????" "yay an update!" "this is so good"

Level of effort: slightly more than a kudos.

Honestly, copy-pasteable. Personally, I would always write these out. Somehow, to me, as a commenter, feels more real if I tippy tappy the letters myself even if Author can't tell. It's a nice way to let an author know you're coming back chapter after chapter when we can only kudos once on a fic. I like to leave a little something more, but I still often start or end with this.

2. Fic reaction.

Sometimes a fic just leaves me a certain way. Invoked a particular mood or visceral reaction. So, I let the author know!

"Awww, my heart is warm!" "Jaw on ground. WTF!" "Literal chills." "My eyes are wet. How did that happen?" "This fic is pure comfort." "AHHHHHHHHHHH!" "Heart on floor, smashed." "WHOLESOME!" "This has left me completely feral and ready to punch something."

Level of effort: you need some emotional intelligence or other awareness of you reactions.

As a starting point, was the fic -- wholesome, sweet, chaotic (in a good way), funny, heartwrenching, sad, delightful, shocking, calm, peaceful, I just want a hug now, terrifying, creepy, comedic?

How do you then turn this into a comment? "This was so ___!!"

Honestly, my crutch here is to just keyboard smash. What does it mean? Your guess as good as mine. I'm speechless, and I cannot words properly, but please participate in these Feels I'm having.

3. One detail I like. (My default comment style)

This one covers a lot of scope. If I read to the end of the fic, there's probably something I liked. Maybe

a turn of phrase. "Diluc drinking grape juice like a man chained to an interrogation table. sfjfskkdz" "Bedsheets twisted up like cooked spinach is SO accurate." "Itto-to is such a cute mashup name!" "We have years ahead of us. That was just one day in the past. The feeeeeelllssss" ":) as punctuation" "Barbatos and Nobles as a bookstore. Sdjjsfjdw I love it"

a particular character moment, action, interaction, or dialogue. quote or paraphrase it! "Diluc kicking Childe into the water was hilarious." "Childe is such an adrenaline junkie. I can't believe he would lean out the window while he was driving." "I'm so proud of Zhongli for actually admitting his feelings!"

some specific moment you emotionally reacted to. I've only recently trained myself out of stoic facing through fic. I mean, it's a useful skill, don't get me wrong (especially in public), but it's less useful when it's just me by myself. I now laugh at 3am reading fic, and my life is brighter for it. Comedy fic writers, you are my fave. "Can't get over when Diluc walks in on Kaeya and Childe. AHHHHH!" "Qiqi drying Childe's hair was so sweet!"

Level of effort: you have to actually remember something you liked or reacted to.

The number of movies I watch and number of times someone asks how's my week, and I just stare blankly because I know it was good but don't know anything else? High. So yeah, this isn't trivial.

I've gotten to the point where usually while reading I notice a moment of "wow I love this!" I don't go looking for them (because I want to stay in fic headspace not comment material hunting headspace), and I don't spend much effort trying to remember. If I forget, that's fine. Not like I'm not writing a book review for a grade or anything.

Just, what's a moment you just got to call out? (And bonus, what's your reaction?) Authors out there seem to like to make us feel things. Show them we're just dangling from their puppet strings!

I usually leave comments like this. Just popcorn style, as many things as I remember, whatever comes up as I recall it. I'm aware that sometimes I end up basically quoting a fic back to its author completely out of order interspersed with commentary or keyboard smashes. I'm occasionally embarrassed by how much I'm smashing into their comments, but the reception seems overall positive.

4. Between the lines and spin off thoughts.

Sometimes fic make me think. I mean, canon makes me think, and then people go and make fanworks off of that, so of course I'm bound to run into fic that makes me think. Sometimes the things I notice or think about aren't directly in the text, but implied or spin out thoughts. An interpretation, a mini analysis, or a reflection. Like,

a new thought or take on a character. "Aro-ace Venti! I like this take!" "Please don't break Klee. She's just trying her best to hold all the adults together. Oh no. You've already broken Klee. T_T" "I bet Jean is the only person who could have kicked Diluc's ass, and he really needed it." "Kaeya what are you doooinggg?? Why is he like this???" (An extra note, it's cool to disagree with a character, but not the author. Character did that makes you want to scream? Go for it. Author wrote the character in a way you disagree with? Don't comment. Leave the fic if it bothers you that much.)

noticing foreshadowing or a detail that isn't fully explained / only alluded to. "Is that Scara working at Scarabucks???" "Wait, something about what Venti said makes me think this isn't just a modern day AU ..." "Did that count as a geo construct for the purposes of the contract?"

some sentence or moment somewhere that just hits you in the brain. This one I don't actually know if author's like. On the one hand, I can imagine it being flattering. On the other, maybe it's too personal? I'll usually center these on the characters, kind of like character analysis. "Diluc sharing his anxiety with Kaeya, and that being what made Kaeya look at his own anxiety... really hits. Like, I don't even think Diluc could have said something sooner without Kaeya running, which says so much about how Diluc loves Kaeya. And the fact Kaeya can see this as a mirror of what he's doing and learns something from it. Just. Oof. Wow." "The conversation between Zhongli and Childe is just so real. Like Zhongli is trying so hard but his ass just can't understand Childe just wants him to tell them things and his not telling things is Not Helping even though he just wants to protect the boy!"

Level of effort: some amount of analytical thinking, reflection, or willingness to share when you get sucker punched by words.

This one I absolutely never go looking for, so I don't leave many such comments. When it does come up, it usually smacks me in the face, and I let it (roll with the hit and into the comments). On occasion I am wailing in the comment box when the revelation (like having broken Klee) just dawns on me. Am I Feelings Processing in comment boxes? Uuuhhhhhh, no comment. (Don't mind the lack of delivery on the pun.)

I'd like to think authors appreciate when we reflect back to them we get their interpretation, but I can also imagine it might be a little too much for authors if we get too personal. In which case, sorry. Your work is great! Please take it as my intention to flatter you since you've touched my heart or brain or soul with your words.

5. Craft appreciation.

This one, *head scratches* yeah, I don't often end up here. But sometimes it's not one moment, but something about all the moments, something underlying, or something in the way it was all put together. If I do end up here and write a general statement, I like to point to specific bits that made me think that (which is where I lean back on One Detail I Like). Actually, yeah, usually I use this as flavor to One Detail I Like, but I think it's sufficiently different to pull out separately. It's a writerly meta layer. What falls here?

dialogue. "Your dialogue is so good. I can hear it in in the VA's voice." "I love the contrast between how Zhongli talks and Childe talks."

imagery. "Can't get over the imagery of Childe releasing dandelion scenes. Such a kid!" "Childe sleeping with Tranquil Statlight is just so peaceful."

characterization. "The little nuggets you give characters like Rosaria doing community service at the church for Crimes just gives me life." "I love the way you write Childe. He's so aggressive!"

setting, world building (more for AUs but wow there are some authors good at expanding on canon lore). "Your world building is so cool. Like the abyssal graffiti on the walls?? HNNG!"

writing style. "Your style is very dreamy. <3" "This is genuinely so heartwarming, and yet at the same time what is this underlying feeling of something is wrong????" "I feel like people appreciate the art of comedic one liners but you've got angst one liners. AND THEY SLAY."

pacing, timing. "This fic reads like a high speed express train. It just never stops or slows down!!" "What is this cRaFT! Like. Para 1, comedic. Para 2, thoughtful. Para 3, WHY DO MY HEARTSTRINGS HURT."

use of language. "Using he for POV character and they for the other is LINGUISTICALLY MIND BLOWING." (Please, I want this to catch on more. I do absolutely respect people's pronouns. These fictional characters (and people who have pronoun flexibility)? She and they instead of she and she?? THE CLARITY WE COULD HAVE??!? I'm incredibly greedy for it.)

premise. "Pierro Dad gives me so much life." "The Bachelor but it's Diluc?? Let's go!!"

plot twist, or cliff hanger. "The reveal!!! *screaming*" "I can't believe you would do me like this." (No, I can't in good conscience leave a specific example and give a fic away. Yes, I am thinking of specific fics still.)

Level of effort: be able to map details you like to writer's craft.

Let's not pretend we're here to do crit. Even if we're using writerly words, we are not here to do crit. Well, I am not because I don't believe the comments box is the right time or place for it, but I am happy to lay on the praise and point out the things that worked for me.

Usually, I think it's harder to look across a fic and be like, yeah, the dialogue hit, or this writing style or pacing really does it for me. It's more nebulous. And sometimes it kicks you out of fic reading headspace and into a writerly meta land to notice, so I don't, and I just let the fic wash over me. And if something here strikes me, I will offer my praises. Again, I think it helps to think of this more as an additional kind of One Detail I Like.

Tenets of commenting (and a little of reading)

Okay, so those were some do's, but I also have don't's. These are my boundaries that I keep. Maybe yours are different. I suspect most of these stem from the place, Author did this for free and Owes Me Nothing, so that's the one real tenet. I keep these in mind so that I can keep fic a nice, fun, safe place for me (and hopefully the authors too).

1. I will never ask for updates. I never expect a next chapter.

I've seen enough content creators stressed out and burnt out about putting something out over and over again. I feel for them. That sucks. They probably just started doing it for fun, and now ... The demand and expectation they continue to perform for free? Yeah, it's not going to come from me.

Once upon a time, because of this and a desire to have complete stories, I wouldn't read incomplete fics. I now am The Biggest Fan of incomplete fics. Yes, hang me off the side of a cliff. I will scream at you. And if you don't haul me back up? Well, fine. I'll live. Some other author's got my back. Probably. There's still so much to love between world building, characterization, good moments, jokes -- and you sometimes get the experience of seeing familiar faces screaming at the fic with you update after update. It's precious. It's fleeting. I could go on, but maybe a different day. Back to commenting!

Flip side, as an author, I will say the desire for more is, in one case, why I plan to continue a fic from years ago. I was very firm at the time I would not be extending the one shot, but I guess time changes things, and the fact people were like, I would read more story contributes to that.

So this one is very much a personal tenet. There's some line between I love this so much I want it to continue, and expecting there to be more. Where is it? I don't know. So I just stay away. Surely Author will get I want more if I just say how much I love everything and have commented on their latest chapter. Rather than leave snacks that taste like burn out to some authors, I will focus on other flavors of comments!

2. I will not say what I dislike.

Not my ship? I probably won't read. Not my preferred ship dynamic? Tropes I don't like? Characterization not hitting it for me? Paragraph formatting not doing it for me? I just x out of there, find something I do like. People be writing things for free! Let them have their fun!

If I did read it, snd I stayed, something else must have grabbed my attention. I'll focus on that. Writing style not quite doing it for me but I love the details added to the world? "Wow, the world you flesh out is so complex." No mention about how much of a drag it is to read, because hey, I still read it, and I had reason to not put it down!

3. I will not give corrections.

Authors (and maybe a beta) have put in tremendous effort and time, and to be like, "you missed a typo" or "actually, the canon lore says X" often detracts from the beauty of the shared fic experience. I interpret random grammar and misspeaks and typos in daily conversation and texts all the time. Surely I know enough to employ this skill. And if I figured it out, other readers probably will figure it out too. If I can't, I usually assume the author was too big brain for me and skip merrily along to the next sentence. (And if it's too much for me to handle, I click out.)

Yeah I get it! I get the urge to want to be helpful and contribute to other people's experience! I know that feel! Because, well, I learned this one from experience. I tried once. Watched an author wilt a little when what I wanted was to be helpful. Yeeeaaah, not doing that again.

So, I suspect this often comes off as a little entitled that just by that bit of you say something and kinda underlyingly expect the author to do something about it, and again, Author Owes Me Nothing! Even if the author is asking for a beta, I'd reach out first and make sure they are now in a headspace to be expecting beta thoughts from me.

Wrapping it up

I love fic, the world is rich with it, and I am full of love for authors and their craft. It fills my heart with joy to know I can return a little smile to someone who has let me hop on their ride for free.

It does take effort. Writing comments, turns out, is writing. Writing is a skill, therefore writing comments is a skill. And writing takes practice to improve, so, guess what, writing comments takes practice to improve. Who would've thunk. (Not me, I assure you.)

I've wanted to write this for me for a while, capture what I've learned because I noticed my ability to write comments change over time. Then recently, I was rec'd a fic and told to definitely leave a comment because the author deserves it and I write good comments. Dispatched because I write good comments! Now my commenter feathers are fluffed up, and so I have actually written this. But I definitely didn't start out the comment writer I am today, so I wanted to share that, surprisingly there is a progression path! (Maybe this is only surprising to me.)

I do find commenting adds to my fic reading experience. And I love reading other people's comments. Sometimes other people notice things I didn't or have very cool interpretations, and that is an extra wow right there. (And look at all these other people who like the thing I like!)

And if I leave a comment, sometimes I get a reply! Author noticed my little comment! Extra dose of happy for everyone!

And sometimes, sometimes, (and again I would never expect it, but it is a gift much like fic itself is) an author will write back full of their notes and what they were thinking about writing those moments, and I treasure that so, so much. It's both a delight because of the usual Author saw my effort commenting and I get an extra behind the scenes! The craft behind the craft! (Now how do authors leave good replies? That is still a mystery to me.)

Sometimes I write a lot and then it goes into a black hole, and that's sad. Hmm. I'm pretty sure this is what authors feel when we don't leave comments. Hmm. Guess it's time to write more comments! (Sometimes, like fic updates, replies show up months later, and that's honestly <3)

So, let's go leave some comments and show those authors love and tell them how much they delighted us! Or ... how they smashed our hearts into the ground with angst/no comfort because sometimes that's just what one wants to read.

Something that I’ve been mulling over for a while is that there must also be something to say about what people are getting out of reading and writing these fics. I took a horror film class a when I first got into this fandom coincidentally and it drastically changed the way I interacted with it going forwards. One of the things I learned was how horror films can often be taken as a reflection of the fears and insecurities of that time. (Invasion of the Body snatchers being a pretty obviously parallel to the American fear of immigration etc) we also did a chapter on Body Horror and how it often works as catharsis for people who Don’t Actually Want To Do The Thing but can experience it safely through a non-invasive means. Take for example, Horror c!discduo, I read plenty of that, usually the creepy thriller fics that involve c!Dream being an obsessive and delusional stalker, because this is something I have and am Currently experiencing in real life, and reading these fics help me work out my feelings around it, once again: CATHARSIS.

So circling back to the dark!sbi trope we can look at it through the lens of what kind of cathartic feeling is this paralleling? And this doesn’t always have to be a bad feeling, there are plenty of positive feelings that can come from dark tropes. Contextually let’s consider this fandom’s experience with the sbi family dynamic in general. It’s not difficult to gather that this fandom’s relationships with their families aren’t exactly… the best. Spend any amount of time on a Philza Minecraft stream and you might be heavily bombarded with donos talking about their shitty dads(ethics of that aside) there’s definitely a large portion of people who watch the content for different reasons at different times, one of these reasons being that vicarious living through the family dynamic. Getting to see them having fun and being together is a very nice and rewarding feeling, so flash forwards into the literature aspect and we have people experiencing some different flavoured versions of this in fanfic form.

Getting back to the dark!sbi trope we can now read it through a lens of “what are these people getting out of reading this, from an emotional perspective”? And I think a huge part of it is the joy of feeling Special. Usually experienced through c!Tommy and sometimes c!Ranboo these characters are picked up by these insanely overpowered family-oriented characters who treat the main character like gold. Being Worth enough for them to be extremely possessive and protective over, with the dark!characters usually being innately capable of these feats. And when you strip away the dialogue and actions and narrative that’s what you’re left with: the desire to be Wanted by someone. Something that in itself can be a very positive thing to receive in text form especially if you feel like you are lacking in the reality department(this doesn’t automatically mean that liking the genre is an indication of your family life, I still agree with basically everything said by the previous posts it’s just a pattern I’ve noticed and can be considered as another theory in why this trope is so popular)

And no matter what stories you read I think it always helps to look at it from that angle, hacking away at the center of a story until you find the core emotions of it can allow you to experience dark stories a lot smoother and with more empathy. Instead of ragging on it for featuring content that “promotes bad behaviour”.

this is hardly even a blip in the discourse in this fandom, but it’s something that I’ve seen just often enough that it’s been swirling in my head so:

it’s completely understandable that some people don’t like the dark sbi genre of fics and avoid it like the plague, that’s half the reason why the tag even exists in the first place. the tag exists Because people know that sort of content can be upsetting for some people and they want them to be able to avoid it wherever possible.

but I think it’s also true that people tend to present and talk about the genre in a strange way. whether that’s serious accusations about people demonizing certain characters or people considering it red flags about someone’s opinions on a character, there’s this tendency to view it as a commentary on someone’s view of canon when that simply isn’t the case.

the dark sbi genre exists specifically to depict dynamics that don’t exist in canon, in the same way that a zombie apocalypse au or a hunger games/battle royale au exists to find interesting ways to bend characters’ personalities through intense survival situations.

the concept with dark sbi in particular is taking this group dynamic that the author enjoys and exploring a version of events where one or more of those characters are anywhere from toxic to outright villains. part of the fun is exploring that distortion, which wouldn’t be possible as a draw to the genre if the author wasn’t aware that it Was a distortion of the characters in question.

it’s also worth noting that there’s this weird impulse to pidgin hole the entire genre into whatever handful of fics a particular person has run into. there is no limit on what characters are changed and in what way, what setting they’re put in, and what kinds of relationships they have with each other. there are certain ideas that are popular within these spaces, but only in the normal way that people who share fandom spaces tend to be inspired by each other and rotate ideas around together. it’d be like trying to make an argument that coffee shop aus are dnf propaganda because you’ve run into fics in that genre with that pairing before. it’s just silly innit.

and again, this sort of thing isn’t for everybody. some people can’t handle horror or depictions of unhealthy relationships, and some people are more sensitive about those sorts of depictions when it comes to characters that are important to them. it’s a good thing that this genre is labeled and that people can filter it out if they don’t want it.

but as far as actually Discussing it as a fandom, there’s no reason why it should be treated any different from, say, aus where xyz character gets possessed by the egg and Does A Bad.